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Bracosius

SmileGuide on how to start Beginner Nightmare groups.

So you finally killed the Gatekeeper and your ready for the big leagues. You stand in Agartha ready to join a group. As the LookingForGroup chat scrolls, everything forming requires AR/HR 3.5k, or must be 6/6, or the PST with stats. After watching this for an hour, you finally get bored waiting for something to come up that you feel comfortable joining, and log off. If this is end game, how are you supposed to be able to participate?

The answer is to start your own group. I know...I know...right now your thinking "but Brac, people scare me." or "but Brac, I can't start a group, I haven't even done them on NM, how can I lead?" or "but Brac, no ones going to join my group, so whats the point." The answer lies in how you form your group.

Forming beginner NM groups is incredibly easy and they usually fill after just one posting in LookingForGroup of what your looking for. And I am not speculating. I have been running NM groups and never had any issues filling one. But there are some rules you should abide by when forming your beginner groups.

First you need to indentify the nature of your group. It is OK to go into a NM for the first time. You are not required to bring a guide. I reccommend something as follows:

"Begginer NM group looking for 2 DPS, 1 Tank, and 1 Healer for NM Polaris. No experience needed. PST."

If your not really a beginner but do not consider yourself an expert, exchange the word beginner for relaxed. "Relaxed" basically says, I sorta know what I am doing, but don't get pissed if we wipe a few times and can only do 5/6.

From my experience I generally only have to post this once in LookingForGroup and I will be able to fill. But do not get discouraged if you have to advertise a couple times. Just update the LFG with what spots are still open.

Some pitfalls to avoid:

Never ask for a minimum stat requirement. It scares off all beginners and many mildly experienced people. I am 6/6 master planner on the first 3 NM (legitamatly, not by cartwheeling), but I won't join a group asking for a minimum stat, whether I have it or not. I am still playing for fun, not grinding speed runs.

You are not allowed to ask for someone 6/6 until you yourself are 6/6 in that particular dungeon at least 5 times. I don't care if you got lucky once or were carried by a group of better players. Until you have a consistent track record, not just a couple completions, you can not ask for others to fulfill that requirement.

Don't dress up your LFG. "we have cookies", "awesome people looking for awesome people", "guarenteed to win". All of this sets you apart but also get cluttered. The LFG moves fast and you do not need to dress it up. Begginner NM is all it takes to draw all of the attention you need.

Do not get scared by all blues or intimdated by all purples. Blues are fine to start the NM content. You will have problems on the last fight, and may not be able to complete it. Don't get discouraged, your still a beginner. If someone joins your group and has all purples, don't be intimidated. It does not instantly mean they will be jerks or insult the rest of the group if things go poorly. You advertised truthfully and if they have all purples they know what to expect. They may be all PvP purples and they could be just as inexperienced as you. I also tend to join begginer groups and don't mind helping with some advice or suggestions if I have any. I never insult another player or get angry if we wipe. If we only can kill one boss and I am timer because the group could not get any further, I accept that. If I couldn't, I wouldn't have joined your group.

Some expectations:

Talk in group chat. Most of the people you are with have never run a NM before or have limited experience. They have heard all of the horrer stories and there biggest fear is screwing something up and being berated in group chat by a stranger. I like to throw out the loot rules right away, "Need on any item that is an upgrade for your class and need on glyph kits until you get one, then pass." If you know the fight a little, give a brief plug like "First fight is standard tank and spank, avoid purple aoe." or "Tank, please pull boss to right side". If you know nothing, say "New to NM, not sure what happens here, lets give it a shot." Something as simple as asking "ready?" People in beginner NM can be nervous because they may be here for the first time. Basic chat calms people and they will see youare not some raving jerk that they need to fear.

Do not expect to go 6/6 on your first runs. The goal is to learn the fights. If it was easy to go 6/6 when you first try it with low end gear, the content would be trivial. It is end game content. It is difficult. But not impossible, and you will get a little farther each time.

Expect to wipe. Experienced people also wipe. It is not a big deal. The goal is to learn from the mistakes. If you died to an acid pit, avoid it next time. If you need an aoe attack, slot it now. If you were just careless, but know what you did, good, your learning.

Expect fat loots! Yes, you will start to gear up with NM quests. There are alot of junk drops. Purple is not always great, but you will also find 10.1 and 10.2 items. These will be vast improvements over your blues. And even if you do not get any 10.x items, you will still receive black bullion. This is used to buy purple upgradable gear. The more NM you run, even if you can't go 6/6 yet, the closer you get to gearing up. It is not wasted. Make sure to loot on the minor bosses to collect your bullion, it does not automatically go into your bag.

Expect to adjust tactics based on your group make up and gear level. The most common thing I have found in beginner NM is tanks that can not hold aggro. I know this going into beginner NM and always slot a detaunt. For me it is mandatory because if I am joining a beginner group I will generally out gear the tank substancially. It is not his fault I am pulling aggro. But I also notice other people equally geared in blues that pull aggro off the tank. Do not get angry with the tank and ruin his night and play experience by hurling insults and blame. In these cases have the DPS slot confuse. Ask the tank if he might have any DPS pieces he could slot if he is currently running all health. Look for solutions around gear issues, do not just give up and find someone to blame.

If you have a run that is fun and you like the people you ran with, make friends. When you start NM you find many people at the same gear level you are. Generally they will be some of the best people to run with. You can gear up and complete the new challenges together. After your run ask if they mind if you add them to your friends list and if they would be interested in doing future NM with you. Then the next time you want to run a NM, start recruiting off your frinds list first. Then fill in the rest of the spots from Agartha pugs. Soon enough your friends list will grow large enough, you will never have to fill with pugs again. In no time you will be that hated guy in LFG "NM Polaris, 3.5 AR/HR, must be 6/6, PST with full resume, we have cookies, no noobs!"
Last edited by Bracosius; 08-29-2012 at 08:40 PM.

Shermain

Shermain's Avatar

Good advice. As someone who just recently beat the Gatekeeper and is getting ready to start his first NM runs, this is sound advice. I'd also recommend looking at guides beforehand if you're feeling scared. There's a lot of them on the net (and a handy in-game browser to make it easy!) to at least give you some basic idea of what you need to bring and need to avoid.

The biggest part is that even if you wipe, don't get frustrated, as you said. It's a game. Have fun with it. Too many people take the game too seriously and get bent out of shape over wiping a few times. I tend to attribute that to people being impatient and having an overinflated opinion of themselves (as they're also the ones who tend to look down on others).

Don't let people like that discourage you. If it doesn't work out one day and someone has a bad attitude, just try again with the next group.

Nijntje

Nijntje's Avatar

+1, some good advice here.
I hope this will work for me once I get started
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gundamemo

1) Don't expect to finish 6/6
2) Don't be melee dps
3) Spec cleanse or group utility abilities

...

4) Bring purple 3k AR DPS who has done it all before, it significantly increase the likelihood of you completing the dungeon because they know the mechanic and aren't likely going to be dead from simple mechanic.

NM is very unforgiving and if you have just ONE person who is incompetent... chances are you won't make it too far (this is assuming you are not being carried by other players)

Seki

Seki's Avatar

For the early nightmare dungeons (ex. Polaris, Darkness War, Hell Raised), the first 4 or so boss fights are about learning mechanics. They tend to be relatively straight forward and provide a good introduction to nightmare difficulty as well as giving a solid drops to gear up with. You may not win on the first try, but by the same token you shouldn't be taking hours to push past a single boss. If the latter is happening, there likely needs to be some reflection on builds/talismans, strategies, and basic movement skills.

For these dungeons, working for "progression" generally starts with the 5th bosses. This is where the party will start to spend a substantial amount of time (hours spent sometimes spent over days) seeing a mechanic, wiping, trying a new strat, wiping ... and so on until the boss is consistently beatable.

My experience so far is the two primary ingredients for long term success in NM's is a strong dedication to teamwork and a willingness to take responsibility for your own play (which is arguably just an aspect of showing a strong dedication to teamwork).
Last edited by Seki; 09-04-2012 at 04:37 AM.

God-Smiter

God-Smiter's Avatar

I find this script very useful when I was doing Newbie Groups; feel free tocut and paste it in notepad.
"<a href="text://<font face=LARGE><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>Nightmare DeathFest Runs</font> aka Gear or NM Newbie Run<BR><BR><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>--</font> Can't get in NM runs couse your AR or HR is too low?.<BR><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>--</font> Don't have any experiance in Nightmare?<BR><BR>These runs are for newbie nm's to get a chance at some experiance as well as drop needed to get invited into more elite nm runs. Mentors are always welcome if you are looking to help out.<BR><BR><font face=LARGE color=#79afff>What do you need to do NM Deathruns?</font><BR><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>--</font> Have Defeated the Gatekeeper. (Unlocked NM)<BR><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>--</font> Have Ql10 Blue gear. (full set is perfred)<BR><font face=LARGE_BOLD color=#ff7e00>--</font> Not get upset at dieing a lot.. its called DeathFest for a reason.<BR><BR><font face=LARGE color=#79afff></a><BR><BR>"><font face=LARGE_BOLD>NM DeathFest</font> Gear Run: </a><font color=#79afff>First few bosses only!</font>"

Remove the ""s from start and end"

Happy Hunting

Luxorien

This post is excellent and should be stickied, IMO.

Shermain

Shermain's Avatar

I've been doing just this. Four days later, I've got 4 purple talismans and 2 purple weapons. Definitely much easier to start a group than sit around searching for one.

individualchic

individualchic's Avatar

/bump for an awesome post.

rrauwl

What I've learned doing this the past couple of days:

1) Do dungeons that have first fights with non-complicated mechanics and without pain in the ass adds.

For example, Polaris is likely to result in at least 2 of 6. That's OK. Hell Fallen is likely to result in a lot of frustration, sometimes even GETTING to the first boss. Not OK. The Facility has the potential to go deep, maybe even VERY deep!

2) You sometimes get 'vets' wanting to help out. Pick a caller/leader at that point and stick with it!

If the vet is willing to do fight instructions, awesome. Don't pipe up unless they forget something (I had to remind one of the Black and White mechanic in the Facility and he was grateful I prevented a wipe. ).

3) Quote the URL of a good guide and have people put that in their copy buffer.

Unfair, Dulfy, or any of the other good guides can be helpful between fights. Make sure you're all on the same page though!
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