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Thread: What is wrong with Hit rating in PvP?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by KemosabeTBC View Post
    So? You can get 4k HP and 6250 AR with 1 minor HP talisman and 2 violence. Use Vigour is a waste because you don't really get any more stats than using other combos AND you will not be able to run with no HP if you want to.
    A dps setup with two purple Violence (adds 141 Attack Rating per signet) gives the following with a minor HP talisman (QL11, +1850 HP) and an Attack Rating pure anima (+240 AR) + a level 5 Accurate augment (+150 AR) :

    HP : 3920
    Attack Rating : 6105~

    On this setup the head is 10.9 (Dust of the Black Pharaoh) with Woodcutter's Wrath (10.9 AR piece), the rest of the Attack rating pieces are QL11.

    Now with a two purple Vigour (+494 HP per signet) dps setup, a level 5 Accurate augment (+150 AR), a pure anima HP (+940 HP) and all pieces as QL11 Attack Rating (except Dust and Woodcutter), you get the following :

    HP : 3998
    Attack Rating : 6257

    So let us see here, you gain 152 more AR and 78 more HP with a double Vigour setup than you would with a double Violence setup, given the mechanisms of Attack Rating returns past 5200~+, it is a more interesting choice if you want to gain more damage while still meeting a safe HP threshold for NM raids.

    So no, not a waste, far from it, although i agree if you run pve content (most of the NM dungeons) other than NM raids violences will be better (even then Vigour can have some small uses in there depending on the random groups you can potentially run with).

    I invite you to calculate this yourself, unless you have potentially something else that can increase AR that i forgot that works only with Violence, somehow.
    Last edited by Bernyy; 02-17-2017 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Typo

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernyy View Post
    I invite you to calculate this yourself, unless you have potentially something else that can increase AR that i forgot that works only with Violence, somehow.
    Yes, with this particular setup you will get 142-152 more AR with the vigours but, it is a waste IMO. You will only get this benefit *if* what you want to do is use 4k HP, and you will not be able to go full AR if you want to.

    If you use violence you can go one way or the other, it's not like the 1% DPS (1.07% to be precise) you get from an extra 140 attack rating will matter for anything. Also, as has been said, 4k HP for NM raids is not strictly necessary.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by KemosabeTBC View Post
    it is a waste IMO.
    Well IMO augments and museum are not worth my pax, but my opinion is irrelevant in front of facts anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by KemosabeTBC View Post
    and you will not be able to go full AR if you want to.
    If this game has one strength, it's allowing us to run multiple setups and get the most out of each of them. Some players can afford the best, many have more than a single talisman set.

    Heck, most players run with the issue's 117AR signets while some prefer the best (+24x2AR) but we sure can't blame them for that.
    Last edited by JackNightmare; 02-17-2017 at 01:49 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by KemosabeTBC View Post
    Yes, with this particular setup you will get 142-152 more AR with the vigours but, it is a waste IMO. You will only get this benefit *if* what you want to do is use 4k HP, and you will not be able to go full AR if you want to.

    If you use violence you can go one way or the other, it's not like the 1% DPS (1.07% to be precise) you get from an extra 140 attack rating will matter for anything. Also, as has been said, 4k HP for NM raids is not strictly necessary.
    Also works with 3k HP while having an Attack Rating anima with just two Vigours and a full set of Attack Rating setup (puts you at 6500+ AR with Accurate).

    Just saying you get a tiny boost to damage by doing that so if you can afford multiple setups, might as well go with that one for NM raids and yes, if you cannot be bothered with "ultra" min-maxing setups for small boosts you can go with double Violence.

    An analogy here since we are in the PvP section : that is like whatever or not it is worth the hassle and costs of using/putting glyphs and signets on 347 weapon power blue weapons in PvP for an extra 1%/1,5%+ damage, in the end it obviously doesn't matter if you use QL11 weapons or 347 weapons, your overall performance will of course depend on yourself but for the one who has the time and ressources in seeking the best setup while not caring about it, it is not a waste.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernyy View Post
    Also works with 3k HP while having an Attack Rating anima with just two Vigours and a full set of Attack Rating setup (puts you at 6500+ AR with Accurate).

    Just saying you get a tiny boost to damage by doing that so if you can afford multiple setups, might as well go with that one for NM raids and yes, if you cannot be bothered with "ultra" min-maxing setups for small boosts you can go with double Violence.

    An analogy here since we are in the PvP section : that is like whatever or not it is worth the hassle and costs of using/putting glyphs and signets on 347 weapon power blue weapons in PvP for an extra 1%/1,5%+ damage, in the end it obviously doesn't matter if you use QL11 weapons or 347 weapons, your overall performance will of course depend on yourself but for the one who has the time and ressources in seeking the best setup while not caring about it, it is not a waste.
    I am actually an adept of "ultra min-maxing setups". But I am not an adept of having 300 talismans in my inventory in order to get +1% performance for all possible situations... I bet the FPS you lose by doing so will have more impact than the 1% DPS increase

  6. #46
    Edit: Please, I don't believe Vigour and Violence are very relevant in this topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Karmakoma View Post
    Well, it depends a lot on you build and what you want to achieve (what role you want to play) with that build.
    Dedicated build for killing DPS or killing tanks ... or killing healers or good in 1 vs 1 or good in 1 vs 3 or etc etc etc may require different use of Hit...
    Is Hit rating needed when dealing with reflect tanks? I'm primarily discussing what works against the majority of enemies, but only ignore seems to work against glancetanks/reflect tanks (are they the same type of tank?). Maybe hit rating works?



    Quote Originally Posted by Myndr View Post
    *Its all about your build tbh. Proc passives/high CR/WC wrath/lac/burst builder or bloodline. Bloodline for example gives 4 chances to crit per use - with focused and good crit rating you WILL crit keeping procs moving and lac uptime at around 98%.

    *Use ele forced, iron maiden, live wire, one in the chamber, etc

    *molten steel, CtP, blaze, etc amplify C or P chances and trigger proc passives

    *debil and corrupt both weaken healers a lot
    I build with AR burst, but focus is better for proccing? I will consider that. But AR has better range, and bullets don't leave a too visible trace to the source (me).

    I stopped using Ele Foce after the change, it only has 5 sec uptime now.
    In PvP, where targets are very mobile, and I myself may have to dash somewhere too, it happens so easily that the 5 second uptime is when I'm not attacking.



    Are you a lumie?
    Oh no, I haven't joined the Empire.
    (I have edited my profile to reflect that)
    Last edited by Sir-Percival; 02-21-2017 at 02:32 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-Percival View Post

    I build with AR burst, but focus is better for proccing? I will consider that. But AR has better range, and bullets don't leave a too visible trace to the source (me).

    I stopped using Ele Foce after the change, it only has 5 sec uptime now.
    In PvP, where targets are very mobile, and I myself may have to dash somewhere too, it happens so easily that the 5 second uptime is when I'm not attacking.
    Ele force is still amazing even with a 5s uptime - I'd argue that in proc builds it is far better than it used to be. Bloodline and other abilities have 20 m range just like AR builders so that isn't changed. You don't necessarily play around ele force but benefit from its bonus when it is up. If it's up for example I'll pop all consumers, high resources or not, and usually get a great return doing so as it crits them and procs my passives.
    Happy Hunting!

    Myndr
    Illuminati PvP Healer

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Myndr View Post
    Bloodline and other abilities have 20 m range just like AR builders so that isn't changed.
    Nope, it's 20m for AR and 15m for blood.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorito360Noscope View Post
    Nope, it's 20m for AR and 15m for blood.
    This, AR is the weapon with the highest range.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorito360Noscope View Post
    Hit rating is good for sustained, which is useless in pvp.
    This.

    I think a lot of confusion with Hit Rating comes from the fact that it's useful in PvE Land, but what's useful in PvE Land isn't so useful in PvP and vice versa.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-Percival View Post
    Still I don't see why the methods for avoiding glancing are different in PvP and PvE. Who does dungeons with zero hit?
    Awhile ago (years), I used to run with a 0/low hit, high Crit Power Rating build in PvE Land dungeons/raids. Even though my glance rate was insane, my DPS was on par or higher than my regular Hit build because my crits compensated. You'd be surprised at what you can do with 0 statX.
    Last edited by Nuketown; 02-22-2017 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Because
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