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Leck

Leck's Avatar
That's why I'm not getting to excited. The media see completely different things to what we see (which btw, I can't see the sense of, because they're never allowed to talk about it).

They may be showing gameplay footage at GDC, but that doesn't mean we will see it. We'll get something, but what that is, we'll just have to wait and see.

JedimaSter

JedimaSter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
If you've seen Kraken, would you care about a half-asleep humanoid zombie? If you've defeated Kraken, would a zombie pose a threat?
Maxing out a character in a traditional MMO is really how a lot of people view as 'finishing' a MMO, or at least, they know they've accomplished something within the MMO world worth the acknowledgement of other players.
Perhaps it would be possible to have some kind of skill-related progression that would not necessarily empower an experienced adventurer far beyond a rookie player but instead give him acces to more skills/powers that would enable him to accomplish more (and more difficult) tasks?

For instance: imo the game would loose a lot of its horror and mystery flavour if a "mid/high-level" character could slice through scores of zombies just because they're meant to be "weak/low-level" enemies. Propably a higher-level char will have acces to somewhat better weapons, ammo and relics. But not enough to make him able to uberpwn the zombies. But then during the gameplay he/she could have picked up some kind of "monster knowledge" skill enabling him/her to see weak spots on the zombies thus making even more effective attacks. This together whith the gear could grant the higher-level char a considerable advantage over the rookie player without making him/her overpowered. It could even be made so that the higher-lvl char would not have any advantage besides his/her gear when fighting monsters they havn't encountered before or know anything about (enter the researchers/riddlebreakers).

Now if both these players were to fight a boss or raid-lvl monster like the Kraken the difference could lie in the knowledge-skills that the higher-lvl char should have aquired along the way. Maybe simple firepower is not sufficient against that enemy, and certain magic rituals must be performed, relics used or some kind of rare valuable ammo used. Now, to utilize those relics and magic certain esoteric-related skills must be used which a rookie character doesn't posses, and the rare ammo is perhaps only given by the Cabals to senior members. It dosen't mean that the higher-lvl char can start hurling fireballs and lightnings - just that they can perform some rituals that make the Kraken vulnerable to damage. And maybe those rituals demand a coordinated effort of several players possesing the necessary skills. Which would mean that a group of rookies wouldn't stand a chance while a group of higher-lvl players mixed with some rookies (armed whith good weapons) could pull it off (against steeper odds).

So the progression ingame would lie in gathering knowledge/skills/relics that enable you to handle more situations. Thus you get a clear advantage over the rookies without being overpowered. Such elements could also be mixed with more traditional skill progression. And they also give an important role to the "researchers". Just some random thoughts...

JedimaSter

JedimaSter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
If you've seen Kraken, would you care about a half-asleep humanoid zombie? If you've defeated Kraken, would a zombie pose a threat?
Maxing out a character in a traditional MMO is really how a lot of people view as 'finishing' a MMO, or at least, they know they've accomplished something within the MMO world worth the acknowledgement of other players.
Perhaps it would be possible to have some kind of skill-related progression that would not necessarily empower an experienced adventurer far beyond a rookie player but instead give him acces to more skills/powers that would enable him to accomplish more (and more difficult) tasks?

For instance: imo the game would loose a lot of its horror and mystery flavour if a "mid/high-level" character could slice through scores of zombies just because they're meant to be "weak/low-level" enemies. Propably a higher-level char will have acces to somewhat better weapons, ammo and relics. But not enough to make him able to uberpwn the zombies. But then during the gameplay he/she could have picked up some kind of "monster knowledge" skill enabling him/her to see weak spots on the zombies thus making even more effective attacks. This together whith the gear could grant the higher-level char a considerable advantage over the rookie player without making him/her overpowered. It could even be made so that the higher-lvl char would not have any advantage besides his/her gear when fighting monsters they havn't encountered before or know anything about (enter the researchers/riddlebreakers).

Now if both these players were to fight a boss or raid-lvl monster like the Kraken the difference could lie in the knowledge-skills that the higher-lvl char should have aquired along the way. Maybe simple firepower is not sufficient against that enemy, and certain magic rituals must be performed, relics used or some kind of rare valuable ammo used. Now, to utilize those relics and magic certain esoteric-related skills must be used which a rookie character doesn't posses, and the rare ammo is perhaps only given by the Cabals to senior members. It dosen't mean that the higher-lvl char can start hurling fireballs and lightnings - just that they can perform some rituals that make the Kraken vulnerable to damage. And maybe those rituals demand a coordinated effort of several players possesing the necessary skills. Which would mean that a group of rookies wouldn't stand a chance while a group of higher-lvl players mixed with some rookies (armed whith good weapons) could pull it off (against steeper odds).

So the progression ingame would lie in gathering knowledge/skills/relics that enable you to handle more situations. Thus you get a clear advantage over the rookies without being overpowered. Such elements could also be mixed with more traditional skill progression. And they also give an important role to the "researchers". Just some random thoughts...

JedimaSter

JedimaSter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
If you've seen Kraken, would you care about a half-asleep humanoid zombie? If you've defeated Kraken, would a zombie pose a threat?
Maxing out a character in a traditional MMO is really how a lot of people view as 'finishing' a MMO, or at least, they know they've accomplished something within the MMO world worth the acknowledgement of other players.
Perhaps it would be possible to have some kind of skill-related progression that would not necessarily empower an experienced adventurer far beyond a rookie player but instead give him acces to more skills/powers that would enable him to accomplish more (and more difficult) tasks?

For instance: imo the game would loose a lot of its horror and mystery flavour if a "mid/high-level" character could slice through scores of zombies just because they're meant to be "weak/low-level" enemies. Propably a higher-level char will have acces to somewhat better weapons, ammo and relics. But not enough to make him able to uberpwn the zombies. But then during the gameplay he/she could have picked up some kind of "monster knowledge" skill enabling him/her to see weak spots on the zombies thus making even more effective attacks. This together whith the gear could grant the higher-level char a considerable advantage over the rookie player without making him/her overpowered. It could even be made so that the higher-lvl char would not have any advantage besides his/her gear when fighting monsters they havn't encountered before or know anything about (enter the researchers/riddlebreakers).

Now if both these players were to fight a boss or raid-lvl monster like the Kraken the difference could lie in the knowledge-skills that the higher-lvl char should have aquired along the way. Maybe simple firepower is not sufficient against that enemy, and certain magic rituals must be performed, relics used or some kind of rare valuable ammo used. Now, to utilize those relics and magic certain esoteric-related skills must be used which a rookie character doesn't posses, and the rare ammo is perhaps only given by the Cabals to senior members. It dosen't mean that the higher-lvl char can start hurling fireballs and lightnings - just that they can perform some rituals that make the Kraken vulnerable to damage. And maybe those rituals demand a coordinated effort of several players possesing the necessary skills. Which would mean that a group of rookies wouldn't stand a chance while a group of higher-lvl players mixed with some rookies (armed whith good weapons) could pull it off (against steeper odds).

So the progression ingame would lie in gathering knowledge/skills/relics that enable you to handle more situations. Thus you get a clear advantage over the rookies without being overpowered. Such elements could also be mixed with more traditional skill progression. And they also give an important role to the "researchers". Just some random thoughts...

psychochef80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
Yes, we're still at the stage where there are questions around every corner. I do like the benefits of everyone remaining at the same 'level', in that everyone can jump in and play. Believe me, I find it annoying in most MMOs when I can't team with friends because of level restrictions. That's the more apparent reason presented for the direction chosen. It's just that level-based games use the levels as a measurement of progress and they tailor/scale their entire game and content around that level. What difficulty should Kraken pose or some other gargantulan creature for example. Should the number of players in the vicinity determine the difficulty or numbers of foes in an encounter? It's hard to say. Reaction and player skills/twitch seems to be involved. Will a monster be able to understand when its facing less skilled players? Should it just remain at the same difficulty, leaving it up to players to figure out how or if it can be beat at all? Perhaps!

Freedom in MMOs is great. It could be in danger of spreading too wide causing it to be too thin for some in that you 'supposedly' can't delve into a path and truly specialize (because specialization would make you better in one area compared to your fellow players not opting that path), but that's again something I say based on the latent fear of TSW failing to achieve what it wants to achieve. Which ultimately is accessible, engaging and fun gaming? Pick-up-and-play game? At least that's what I gather from Ragnar talking about the game. The complexity of the ARG stories indicate otherwise, but maybe those who aren't interested in that part can simply skip it and help their side by participating in combat.
If you want to get an idea of how a skill baised game can work and still have progression check out EVE online some time. As long as they specailise their skill sets at first a new character can be fairly useful to a fleet as either a miner or a tackler (holds the battleships down in a cheap easy to use frig so they cant get a way) in a month or less but on the other hand if they want to fly bs in fleet them selves or maby even a cap ship, that can take months to years to be able to do perfectly. So there is all kinds of progression to be had and yet its also perfectly possible to be usefull with in your first few weeks.

As fare as the monsters... in eve they tend to stay the same difficulty and you basicly have to figure out how strong a tank and weapons your going to need to handle it

psychochef80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
Yes, we're still at the stage where there are questions around every corner. I do like the benefits of everyone remaining at the same 'level', in that everyone can jump in and play. Believe me, I find it annoying in most MMOs when I can't team with friends because of level restrictions. That's the more apparent reason presented for the direction chosen. It's just that level-based games use the levels as a measurement of progress and they tailor/scale their entire game and content around that level. What difficulty should Kraken pose or some other gargantulan creature for example. Should the number of players in the vicinity determine the difficulty or numbers of foes in an encounter? It's hard to say. Reaction and player skills/twitch seems to be involved. Will a monster be able to understand when its facing less skilled players? Should it just remain at the same difficulty, leaving it up to players to figure out how or if it can be beat at all? Perhaps!

Freedom in MMOs is great. It could be in danger of spreading too wide causing it to be too thin for some in that you 'supposedly' can't delve into a path and truly specialize (because specialization would make you better in one area compared to your fellow players not opting that path), but that's again something I say based on the latent fear of TSW failing to achieve what it wants to achieve. Which ultimately is accessible, engaging and fun gaming? Pick-up-and-play game? At least that's what I gather from Ragnar talking about the game. The complexity of the ARG stories indicate otherwise, but maybe those who aren't interested in that part can simply skip it and help their side by participating in combat.
If you want to get an idea of how a skill baised game can work and still have progression check out EVE online some time. As long as they specailise their skill sets at first a new character can be fairly useful to a fleet as either a miner or a tackler (holds the battleships down in a cheap easy to use frig so they cant get a way) in a month or less but on the other hand if they want to fly bs in fleet them selves or maby even a cap ship, that can take months to years to be able to do perfectly. So there is all kinds of progression to be had and yet its also perfectly possible to be usefull with in your first few weeks.

As fare as the monsters... in eve they tend to stay the same difficulty and you basicly have to figure out how strong a tank and weapons your going to need to handle it

psychochef80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calelena View Post
Yes, we're still at the stage where there are questions around every corner. I do like the benefits of everyone remaining at the same 'level', in that everyone can jump in and play. Believe me, I find it annoying in most MMOs when I can't team with friends because of level restrictions. That's the more apparent reason presented for the direction chosen. It's just that level-based games use the levels as a measurement of progress and they tailor/scale their entire game and content around that level. What difficulty should Kraken pose or some other gargantulan creature for example. Should the number of players in the vicinity determine the difficulty or numbers of foes in an encounter? It's hard to say. Reaction and player skills/twitch seems to be involved. Will a monster be able to understand when its facing less skilled players? Should it just remain at the same difficulty, leaving it up to players to figure out how or if it can be beat at all? Perhaps!

Freedom in MMOs is great. It could be in danger of spreading too wide causing it to be too thin for some in that you 'supposedly' can't delve into a path and truly specialize (because specialization would make you better in one area compared to your fellow players not opting that path), but that's again something I say based on the latent fear of TSW failing to achieve what it wants to achieve. Which ultimately is accessible, engaging and fun gaming? Pick-up-and-play game? At least that's what I gather from Ragnar talking about the game. The complexity of the ARG stories indicate otherwise, but maybe those who aren't interested in that part can simply skip it and help their side by participating in combat.
If you want to get an idea of how a skill baised game can work and still have progression check out EVE online some time. As long as they specailise their skill sets at first a new character can be fairly useful to a fleet as either a miner or a tackler (holds the battleships down in a cheap easy to use frig so they cant get a way) in a month or less but on the other hand if they want to fly bs in fleet them selves or maby even a cap ship, that can take months to years to be able to do perfectly. So there is all kinds of progression to be had and yet its also perfectly possible to be usefull with in your first few weeks.

As fare as the monsters... in eve they tend to stay the same difficulty and you basicly have to figure out how strong a tank and weapons your going to need to handle it

Kendrick

Kendrick's Avatar
Guys...

Don't hold your breath on dates.
Things can, do, and often will change.

I'm not saying not to get excited. I'm just saying don't get yourself worked up into a frenzy over something that may not happen.
Kendric
Huldra
"What's next, giant spiders? Giant cockroaches?? FUCKING CIRCUS CLOWNS?"

Kendrick

Kendrick's Avatar
Guys...

Don't hold your breath on dates.
Things can, do, and often will change.

I'm not saying not to get excited. I'm just saying don't get yourself worked up into a frenzy over something that may not happen.
Kendric
Huldra
"What's next, giant spiders? Giant cockroaches?? FUCKING CIRCUS CLOWNS?"

Kendrick

Kendrick's Avatar
Guys...

Don't hold your breath on dates.
Things can, do, and often will change.

I'm not saying not to get excited. I'm just saying don't get yourself worked up into a frenzy over something that may not happen.
Kendric
Huldra
"What's next, giant spiders? Giant cockroaches?? FUCKING CIRCUS CLOWNS?"
 

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