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Anduri

Anduri's Avatar
I'm going to be standing in the fight club from day one.

Come at me if you want pvp.

In Flagrante

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambchopz View Post
Because you are, in fact, arguing with some people who PvP. That is part of the problem. I'm a huge fan of PvP, as I'm sure others in this argument (arguing against you) are, but I don't want a PvP server thrown in just because.

I would much rather see them develop the systems they already have in place. Throwing in a PvP server is basically another way of throwing a bone to PvPers to get them to just sit down and be quiet.

At least without one they have more incentive to improve the systems that are already in place.

You may think you are speaking on behalf of PvPers, but you are not. That is why this type of claim is so frustrating to me.
Jerry is certainly speaking on behalf of me. I havent commented on this thread as it doesnt need me - he is more eloquent and knows more about TSW - I pretty much support what he is saying though fwiw.

That said, before the announcements which drove Jerry to start this thread I was already pointing out to him the signs that said to me TSW was going to be so PvP-light I probably would end up not playing it. We didnt agree at that point, Jerry was staying optimistic.

I do want a PvP server - Jerry doesnt if you read what he actually says, he wants proper PvP content, but acknowledges that a PvP server would provide at least some way to involve the "very large" PvP community (Over 50% of SWOTRs EU servers are PvP enabled and for a new game to largely ignore that is astonishing)

I'm greedy, I want both pvp content and servers, and lore comes second. I realise that isnt going to happen as its not what the game is aiming at, but still, campaigning for bones to be thrown is worth a try. After all, God apparently took a mere bone and turned it into the ultimate PvP machine - Woman

JerryC

JerryC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faohs Dal View Post
Atlas,

I must disagree with the following.



It is the other way around.

The PvP community has long been oppressed by hardcore PvE players, who have themselves been catered to by MMOs over the last decade. Crafters have been oppressed as well.

When is the last time you heard a PvP player saying they don't want PvE players to have rich content? It doesn't happen. The converse, however, is a recular occurance. PvE players regularly argue against rich PvP content because they are absolutely terrified that it might impact them, in any way, however indirect.

PvP players don't want a game to conform to their playstyle. They just want to be able to play it as they wish, just like you. Unfortunately, because so many PvE players will not accept a game that does not cater to them, and because they are so vocal, developers continuously churn out games that provide gamers with only the cycle of "reach endgame, enter social mode, wait for expansion, receive expansion, repeat." Then of course the PvE community complains about this set-up, but it is indeed the only one they will accept.

Thus, many PvE elements oppress everyone, even themselves.

The more time passes, the more TSW appears to be set up in exactly this fashion.

-FD
agree just look at the raid types moaning like hell about GW2. GW2 never said it was going to have raids btw.

This is also why i dont beleive the "we will get better PVP tomorrow" mantra by some here, that rarely happens becasue endgame content vultures devour all the PVE then moan like hell for more tiers of PVE.

Makiaveli

Makiaveli's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaolinwind View Post
WELL DAM.

Word from beta is the pvp combat sucks. So I guess that explains alot.

Sorry for the arguments guys. I guess they were unfounded on a false hope.

Enjoy your WoW in boogie-land.
Oh well if you know someone in Beta and they say it sucks, well then it must be a fact.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Faohs Dal View Post
PvE players regularly argue against rich PvP content because they are absolutely terrified that it might impact them, in any way, however indirect.
-FD
This is insulting. Not to mention false, just like most of the content of your post.

Game developers decide how to make games. They do so by what they want and what will sell. How many copies they want to sell determines the approach they take. If they will be happy with a niche game, then they can take a approach that will appeal to a smaller audience, ie the PvP crowd.

Please take your insulting pap somewhere else. You aren't saying anything new. Now if you want to add something useful to the community, then I would love for you to hang around. The problem is is that I know you well enough to know you are just trying to stir things up in a last ditch effort to try and turn TSW around to your way of thinking.

This isn't a PvP centric game. That is a fact. It will have some PvP in it. That is also a fact. No amount of whining and bitching by either "side" is going to change those facts. Whether anyone is truly happy will remain to be seen.

However both sides are being idiots, as a rule, by claiming that opposing side brings NOTHING to the table.

The devs here aren't alll newbies. They know the score. Didn't RT bring in someone to work on the game just because he was a big PvP guy? If that doesn't ring a bell for anyone, do some digging. Might do ya some good to learn to research a bit. Point being is they aren't trying to phone the PvP in. In many of your opinion that might be exactly what happens, but if they are giving a good faith effort in the confines of their vision, then WTF are you bitching about?

Just like the most recent thread started about the pace of the combat. TSW is doing many things different, but radically changing the combat isn't one of them. It is being tweaked, but not rebooted. Deal with it.

So final word on PvP? Say your piece by all means, but don't whine and insult all members of the opposing side. Ignore the idiots. Unlike me, I have a brain defect that forces me to from time to time. :P

That was a joke. If anyone chooses to be offended, then it's you who considers yourself to be an idiot.

Makiaveli

Makiaveli's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryC View Post
agree just look at the raid types moaning like hell about GW2. GW2 never said it was going to have raids btw.

This is also why i dont beleive the "we will get better PVP tomorrow" mantra by some here, that rarely happens becasue endgame content vultures devour all the PVE then moan like hell for more tiers of PVE.
Doesn't this say more about the morons who are complaining? If the game wasn't advertised as having raids, then they bought it without knowing what they were getting.

So lesson here is to boycott GW2 and associated games and let them know it's because they caved to moronic pressure.

Same token, don't buy TSW unless and until they give you the game you want. If you buy it hoping for PvP that may never come, they you are just another GW2 raider.

Samedi

Samedi's Avatar
I've got a deal for the "wait and see" crowd in here and/or the people who are totally against a PVP server for any reason really yet still agree that PVPers are currently getting the short end of the stick.

I'll stop posting in this thread if I can get each of you anti PVP-Server people to agree to wait it out with me. Don't pre-order the game, don't buy the Collector's Edition and don't enjoy your PVE content until we get more meaningful PVP content. Does it sound like a pretty unreasonable request to ask you to wait to play the game. A game that many of you have been excited about for years now? Does it seem like a pretty unreasonable request to just ask that you wait on new content that may, or may not occur? Then let me ask you something else.... Why should I feel any differently than you do?

PVP servers might seem like just a bone to chew on from the feast that is TSW. Would us PVP dogs prefer steak? You're damn right we would. But if the chefs are all busy at the moment we'd sure like a bone at least so that we don't feel like we've been forgotten. Otherwise we'll just go see if we are welcome at someone else's table.

(In before bone metaphor joke)
"Others believe that names grant great strength."

JerryC

JerryC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambchopz View Post
You are looking at this in entirely the wrong way as far as I'm concerned.

If they just leave PvP to die after launch and do nothing to it, sure, I'd be pissed, but that's a pretty unrealistic assertion.
funcom never had a history of promising things then never delivering them right?

They may put in load of warzones

They may pull a SWTOR, it wont work with just one so instead of fixing it or adding more they depreceate it and bang in a couple more mini games

They may get loads of PVE whine about lack of content and work on the never ending raid cycle first like RIFT

Now I will probably play through the story, then unsub. Im not going to hang around waiting for this promised PVP while doing things i dont enjoy such as
grinding harder modes of dungeons over and over
grinding tupperware pvp over and over
queueing forever to get in the warzone

thats what we are getting the typical wow "queueing to do shit" endgame. I hate queueing in real life, not going to pay to do it in my spare time.

JerryC

JerryC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makiaveli View Post
Doesn't this say more about the morons who are complaining? If the game wasn't advertised as having raids, then they bought it without knowing what they were getting.

So lesson here is to boycott GW2 and associated games and let them know it's because they caved to moronic pressure.

Same token, don't buy TSW unless and until they give you the game you want. If you buy it hoping for PvP that may never come, they you are just another GW2 raider.
ah but the difference is......

many of us came to this game because of the things said about pvp.

....then PVP took an arrow to the knee to meet deadlines / appease PVEers

spumvis

spumvis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faohs Dal View Post
I must disagree with the following.



It is the other way around.
I must disagree as well.

Most Pve'ers are just happy on the pve side of the fence as most pvp'ers are happy on their side.

It's just a small vocal minority on both sides that likes to complain about everything.
Besides the pvp side does sometimes oppress the pve side.
The nerfing of the spiritmaster and the ranger in Aion for example happened after a huge whinefest about them being OP... in PVP.
And thus they got nerfed so bad they even were pretty worthless in PvE as well.

And it's people like you that think every PvE'er is a whiny carebear that are part of the problem. Not the general pve or pvp player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryC View Post
ah but the difference is......

many of us came to this game because of the things said about pvp.

....then PVP took an arrow to the knee to meet deadlines / appease PVEers
And that is something I regret as well.
Especially because I was looking forward to do more pvp in this game.
I told somebody to be himself
Which turned out to be impossible
Because he was nobody

Heavn

Heavn's Avatar
you was looking forward to pvp O.o mr i dont like pvp waaaa :P now you has a partner your like bring it :P
 

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